Suggestions for 2011

Banned Joined: 05 Oct 2005 Posts: 1661

The event is lost for a fundamental ethos.

You guys are hoping to appeal to a large demographic by haphazardly making art with no driven audience. People should buy your work because you have credible ideas and talent, not because you can create eye cancer for 13 year olds with your expensive tablets.

I think the event probably needs to be narrowed down to doujinshi/comics, rather than a clusterf*ck of everything. At least aim for a proper audience.

Samourai Joined: 31 May 2009 Posts: 166

My thoughts exactly.

I didn't go this year and never will unless something changes. Let me know when it does.

Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 10:56 am

Shine Spark wrote:

My thoughts exactly.

I didn't go this year and never will unless something changes. Let me know when it does.

Well, that's depressing to hear :/ No offence, but isn't it more productive to say HOW it can be better rather than writing it off?

Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 12:57 pm

That is OG Shine Spark, don't *Baniai! question him.

Site Admin Joined: 23 Feb 2004 Posts: 298

Zeb wrote:

not all artists visit this forum often, which is why I'd strongly suggest setting up some form of communication (something as simple as an email list) where messages don't get "lost" and artists can be kept upto date with whats happening. I mentioned this to Nukeblood on the day.

I'd suggest Facebook, but again like a forum, not everyone will visit/use. Emails are archaic technology to be sure, but they are also more in yer face.

i like the idea of the mailing list, but how do we go about it?
do you recommend a specific system?
how about things like Yahoo Groups or Google Groups? would they work? (i never actually used them...)

Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 2:30 pm

Lyakim wrote:

i like the idea of the mailing list, but how do we go about it?
do you recommend a specific system?
how about things like Yahoo Groups or Google Groups? would they work? (i never actually used them...)

My Rover Crew use Google groups Smile

You opt into the group and it sends out collective emails. Depends on if one person is corrisponding to many, or if it's many to many. If it's one to many, then using an email client would be better to stop spam.

I think it's a good idea too Smile

That way, people can swap ideas and be inspired to do updates sooner Smile

No more last minute rushes Very Happy

Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 2:47 pm

Is Google groups popular? I mean, if we wanted reach out to a broader range of people, wouldn't something like Facebook be more effective for that?

I personally don't use Facebook, but (aside from myself) it seems everyone and their mother uses it, so.. I dunno, up to you guys really. lol.

Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 3:38 pm

Des wrote:

Is Google groups popular? I mean, if we wanted reach out to a broader range of people, wouldn't something like Facebook be more effective for that?

I personally don't use Facebook, but (aside from myself) it seems everyone and their mother uses it, so.. I dunno, up to you guys really. lol.

Case and point. Face book is spam. If you want everyone to ACTUALLY get the message, email is better. DO10 had a Facebook page. People go there once, say they're attending and never go back. When you watch 200 people on Face book like me, any announcements get lost in mass posts >.> Email is a MUCH better option.

Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 4:41 pm

Arkillian wrote:

Face book is spam.

hm.. more reason for me not to sign up i see.

Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 4:48 pm

Des wrote:

Arkillian wrote:

Face book is spam.

hm.. more reason for me not to sign up i see.

I'm only on because of my Rover Scout group. It's the only way I hear about some events. When they say collective spam though, the apps are HORRENDOUS. Don't go there- seriously. Email is much more rewarding. It's a social website. Not an effective form of communication.

Ronin Joined: 06 Jul 2007 Posts: 21 Location: Auckland

Right, I feel need to chip in my 2cent.

Merchandise, why it's mostly prints.
most participants are quite tight fund wise. even making "high quality artbook" is quite a gamble, what if only a niche buying it (even if 5 people buy it would be consider "lucky"). Prints easy to do and don't cost as much, good to see if one's style is "popular" or not.

a comic/manga/doujin is
1. time consuming,
2. and also big gamble if people actually like the doujin/fanart story of it. (ie Disgaea - anyone know of this?)
3. to come up with fan story that "fan" actually like
4. and if they like the artist's style.

My group was selling the norm as well, prints, bookmarks, artbooks.
it's because, we all busy with study/work, and apart from me, they're pretty tight on fund (even making artbook was a concern for them).

Ideally, if I'm thinking to do something unusual, is for few people who like my art style, get together and request something from me, ie. 5 people note me asking me making clay bookmark, or doujin of Revenant Wings.

it's just the unknown, and fund, that I/we decide to go the "easy" route.
after all, none of us is professional artist (with sponsors/or some company backing us up/giving us fund to do wild things)

Samourai Joined: 31 May 2009 Posts: 166

Sure, I could say how it could be better, except I have in the past. No one agrees.

Not going down that road again.

Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 5:46 pm

Arkillian wrote:

If you manage it, you're doing better than me >.> Essentially, you need to know someone that knows ALOT of local artists, and is influential enough to convince them to turn up. Second problem. Western and eastern don't seem to mix due to age bracket range. I know people that WOULD turn up to drawfests if there wasn't any kids around. Usually it works if you have a group of people that aree friends cause then there's a basis and get gets more well known from there.

Wellington success rating- 10 people. Auckland? 6 at most. My suggestion is to tap this and tap the Armageddon market with fliers if you want to make it regular. slap a pile of fliers on the collectors tables if they allowe it and see what happens.

You are over-praising me. I don't know much artists as you do.
I think for our case, we should re-use our existing email contacts gathered in this DO to organize the next meeting.

Since there'll be a half year gap before the next event is announced, we could do something in between this period to help (or train up) new and inexperience exhibitors from this year.
Perhaps we may need some sort of post-DO recap sessions to let the artists to review and get feedbacks.

So what kind of locations did you pick from the past to hold such DrawFest meeting?

Arkillian wrote:

Primary- give them a reason to be there by having stuff to actually draw, or people *wont* Biggest killer of drawfest? Not actually drawing. I like trifolds. They're fun, and they're easy to break the tension Smile

Indeed, setting-up a theme or preparing some sort of activities will make the attendance of the meeting being meaningful or interesting.

I know the "trifolds" as I saw them from your blog. These are interesting stimulations. I tried to experiment an activity called 10-minute comic in the past. Basically you have to finish a 4-panel comic strip under a topic within 10 minutes. It's not too successful for the actual trials as it's quite a demanding task. However, it's also
another form of stimulating artist's creativity.

Arkillian wrote:

Exactly. Colour, a friendly face, a full but not over crowded stall, and something that's exciting and new. Try something *not* popular and go to town with it rather than do Vocaloid. Put some time and though into it. Group posters in a clear file rather than loose. Draw at the stall and offer on the spot commissions. If you look interesting, people will come to you Smile

Yup. That's how my original sketches helped me to initiate a few friendly chats

Arkillian wrote:

Nani told me something 3D, something colourful, and something that moves, and you'll attract everyone to your stall. Someone famous uses that formula. I think it's Gibli. Anyways, That's why I dress up and I draw. It's not cause I'm diss interested or just lolling out, I'm also advertising myself, and cause it's more appealing than being yelled at for sales. Abit of attention seeking is good if noone can see you. If people are seeing you and aren't buying, then yelling is not the way. There was alot of washed out stalls this year.

That seems to suggest the artists should start to do more decoration works at their stalls to get visitors' attentions.
Yelling is useless and pointless - and I had no idea why people needed to yell & scream at the last 15 minutes of this DO.

Survey may give us some reference into the insights of what visitors are after. Hope the event organizers may take a look on this option in the future.

Khyoon wrote:

I also agree that the thing that stood out most this year was the 3D papercraft kits. Last year's for me would probably be CDS' OST CD. It would be pretty nice if we saw more people break out of the box next year, but I feel it's just going to be another stagnant year. =/

I guess there will be different ideas popping out for next event, but this may not appear in a large number. After all, NZ doujin culture is still quite young and small. Artists tend to play it in a safe way. (Even said so, who knows who may sell GK model set in the future :p)

cyberkun wrote:

I think the event probably needs to be narrowed down to doujinshi/comics, rather than a clusterf*ck of everything. At least aim for a proper audience.

Ideally yes but how do you plan to get that works out?
When you are doing an convention promotion, you have to aim for larger audience to cover/reach specific ones in the process. Any idea where we could look for our potential audience?
Also, you can't force artists to do certain type of productions. You may suggest and encourge them to try to look at comics and artbooks as options.
In terms of production, artbook is easier to be prepared. However, comic production will require more preparations and planning ahead to get it feasible.

Shine Spark wrote:

I didn't go this year and never will unless something changes. Let me know when it does.

Then that may end up none of us will let you know as we don't know your baseline for changes. May I suggest you instead attend every event to spot the changes by yourself and give those feedbacks at forum or recap sessions. I also suggest you should come to any future artist meeting to voice your opinions. (Remember it's always open to everyone to attend)

I agree with Arkillian. Email is more reliable. If we could use the existing DO mailing list, it will be a nice starting point for communicate with other artists.

Google Group is good for team working - a good tool for real-time sharing resource and communicate among members. You can say an useful tool for organizing a doujin circle.

Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 6:00 pm

I lean towards Cyberkun's sentiments in terms of seeing more doujinshi/comics and encouraging artists to do their own, original stuff. The whole "that's what commission's are for" thing he said resonates with me.

It just seems to me if artists are serious about the art-form, wouldn't it make sense to work on doujinshi/comics as a project? Back before DO existed, plenty of artists made them (including artists in this forum) so wouldn't it be a good way to improve your skills in any case?

But of course, that's only if it's enjoyable to the artist. I think as long as the artist produces something they love and are proud of, then they've done a good job.

In terms of them being time consuming - be so, so careful with thinking that way. 5 or maybe 10 years will pass and you'll regret you didn't start on anything for this reason. Make sure you have no regrets.

Wynnter wrote:

none of us is professional artist (with sponsors/or some company backing us up/giving us fund to do wild things)

I totally appreciate what you said but that also means you don't have the pressure to sell like a professional artist would. If anything, you have waaaay more freedom to do your own thing don't you?

At the end of the day, you're never going to be able to please everyone, so I say take your chances on creating something cool that you want to create. Overload is just such a great opportunity to grow as an artist, doesn't have to be perfect straight away - or ever Wink

Samourai Joined: 31 May 2009 Posts: 166

I really don't think voicing my opinion on this subject is the best play. I usually end up offending someone while having no intention of doing so.

I guess it all come down to hating mainstream anime design, and not understanding why anyone would want to reproduce it, which is all DO seems to consist of. This is what people want for some horrible reason.

I've made my baseline for changes clear in the past, but no one agrees. As it stands now, this event has no hope or spirit.